Comments on: Google vs. National Information Exchange Model

By: Andrew

Andrew — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 18:14:40 +0000

Without an interface, how does that text enter or leave a system? As far as I'm concerned, it is impossible to do a system-to-system transaction without some type of interface. Interfaces can be very loosely or tightly defined, but you need interfaces to support system-to-system communication.

My concern about data quality is not about how its stored, but how its interpreted via the exchange. For example, the element "Case Type" means different things to different domains. Courts may view "Case Type" as a way to delineate between civil and criminal cases whereas the Transportation Security Administration may view "Case Type" as a way of describing a piece of luggage. My concern about data quality is being able to preserve semantics so information is not misinterpreted.

We clearly have two different perspectives here. You're operating under the assumption that information that you want to search already safely resides in a system. I'm coming from the perspective that you need to get that information into the system from another system while preserving the original intent of that information.

By: RayLucchesi

RayLucchesi — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 17:12:07 +0000

Andrew: I guess were going to have to disagree. A broad search does not need system defined interfaces if it is text based. As for data quality, this depends on the source of the data, e.g., the 911 center's data quality would be the same if it was in a text form or a database record.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 16:42:11 +0000

Ray: I think you're reading this the wrong way. Sharing information in emergency situations is quite broad and is much much more than just searching. Consider a 911 center entering information in their computer aided dispatch system then sharing that information with other systems to coordinate response to an emergency. I consider this information sharing in emergency situations that really has nothing to do with searching.
When you say: "I believe any sharing of critical information during emergency situations goes beyond defined system to system interfaces and requires a broad based search across databases, systems and jurisdictions." You're really stating an oxymoron. A broad search across databases, systems, and jurisdictions will still require some sort of defined interface. Otherwise how does each disparate system know what its sending and receiving. As soon as you begin to connect disparate systems, you need a platform-independent way of representing semantics of data, otherwise you run the risk of data quality issues. Imagine poor data quality in an emergency situation.

Consider the concept of federated search. This is where I have the ability to search my local system, but behind the scenes my local system may reach out to other systems. In this case, NIEM would define what the request and reply messages look like.

I really feel like you're confusing human-to-system interaction with system-to-system interaction. NIEM is only about system-to-system. If I have a user interface that just sits on top of a local database, there is no role for NIEM. But as soon as I want that local database to populate information from other disparate systems, now there is a role for NIEM.

By: RayLucchesi

RayLucchesi — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 16:12:04 +0000

Andrew: Thanks again for all the comments. On NIEM.gov's home page it says: \”… effectively share critical information in emergency situations, …\”I read such a statement as a requirement for search. I believe any sharing of critical information during emergency situations goes beyond defined system to system interfaces and requires a broad based search across databases, systems and jurisdictions. In my opinion, text based search, from Google, Microsoft, or others provides the easiest, quickest, and cheapest way to provide such capabilities.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 15:45:44 +0000

Ray: I am very interested in getting this issue straightened out. Can you please clarify for me what exactly you're reading that you interpret as "searching" being an integral part of NIEM? Thanks!

By: RayLucchesi

RayLucchesi — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 15:07:04 +0000

Joseph: I guess we are going to disagree on this. Search seems to me an integral part of the mandate for NIEM as I read it. Text based search would minimize the need for an information exchange superstructure to provide this.

Ray

By: josephmartins

josephmartins — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 23:39:06 +0000

I'm unclear about what you're proposing Ray. Perhaps you're still confused or I have misunderstood what you wrote.

The NIEM framework need not be "augmented with search". That is to say, NIEM has nothing to do with search…nada, zip. Two totally different discussions. As Andrew pointed out earlier, NIEM simply ensures semantic consistency for the purpose of information exchange.

When I think NIEM I think of other exchange frameworks such as NITF (news publishing) and HL7 (healthcare). Loosely speaking, not unlike storage standards such as SMI-S and XAM.

Newspaper publishers can run searches against their content repositories, and use NITF (the news industry's equivalent of NIEM) to then share the information between publishers. NITF ensures their systems "speak the same language". Similarly, healthcare organizations can search their repositories and use HL7 to then exchange the information.

NIEM simply ensures that government agencies' and suppliers' systems can exchange content in a way that they'll all understand.

Perhaps you're talking about allowing more extensive access-controlled federated search of government repositories, but you'd still need NIEM to enable the exchange of bits and bytes between systems.

By: RayLucchesi

RayLucchesi — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 22:08:06 +0000

Mike,I thought the purpose of NIEM was to share information across domains so as to provide a broader base for decision making. But to tell the truth no I have never seen a NIEM message. And NO I would not suggest a business stop sending purchase orders to buy things. BUT if I was interested in aggregating purchase orders to 1000 of municipalities and local governments, and 50 states and 100s of national government agencies I might consider asking for text copies of all of them so that they could be easily searched.Other comments have come in describing the semantic nature of NIEM information and I agree much of that will be lost from a purely text based search but what I was trying to say is that if you are interested in quickening the sharing of information across disparate organizations then the best way from my perspective is text based search.Ray